Datasets:

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innovation-hacking2

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shitposting_dataset5

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[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized.", ">\n\nLet's just hope it's not releasing any airborne containments" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized.", ">\n\nLet's just hope it's not releasing any airborne containments", ">\n\nThey’re spreading a covid-like virus in those, just a theory" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized.", ">\n\nLet's just hope it's not releasing any airborne containments", ">\n\nThey’re spreading a covid-like virus in those, just a theory", ">\n\nDon’t want to sound ignorant but isn’t this super embarrassing for the west? (Canada, US etc)? Like I understand why they haven’t shot it down yet but it’s probably gotten so much data on Anericas missle silos in the north, mid-west." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized.", ">\n\nLet's just hope it's not releasing any airborne containments", ">\n\nThey’re spreading a covid-like virus in those, just a theory", ">\n\nDon’t want to sound ignorant but isn’t this super embarrassing for the west? (Canada, US etc)? Like I understand why they haven’t shot it down yet but it’s probably gotten so much data on Anericas missle silos in the north, mid-west.", ">\n\nLocations aren’t hidden. Russia flys over to check our all the time same as we fly over russias. Personally I think they were trying to tap our communications systems. Who knows." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized.", ">\n\nLet's just hope it's not releasing any airborne containments", ">\n\nThey’re spreading a covid-like virus in those, just a theory", ">\n\nDon’t want to sound ignorant but isn’t this super embarrassing for the west? (Canada, US etc)? Like I understand why they haven’t shot it down yet but it’s probably gotten so much data on Anericas missle silos in the north, mid-west.", ">\n\nLocations aren’t hidden. Russia flys over to check our all the time same as we fly over russias. Personally I think they were trying to tap our communications systems. Who knows.", ">\n\nNo you can’t spy! That’s only for the glowies in Virginia to do!" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized.", ">\n\nLet's just hope it's not releasing any airborne containments", ">\n\nThey’re spreading a covid-like virus in those, just a theory", ">\n\nDon’t want to sound ignorant but isn’t this super embarrassing for the west? (Canada, US etc)? Like I understand why they haven’t shot it down yet but it’s probably gotten so much data on Anericas missle silos in the north, mid-west.", ">\n\nLocations aren’t hidden. Russia flys over to check our all the time same as we fly over russias. Personally I think they were trying to tap our communications systems. Who knows.", ">\n\nNo you can’t spy! That’s only for the glowies in Virginia to do!", ">\n\nBet spreading Covid was a force majeure accident too, right China?" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized.", ">\n\nLet's just hope it's not releasing any airborne containments", ">\n\nThey’re spreading a covid-like virus in those, just a theory", ">\n\nDon’t want to sound ignorant but isn’t this super embarrassing for the west? (Canada, US etc)? Like I understand why they haven’t shot it down yet but it’s probably gotten so much data on Anericas missle silos in the north, mid-west.", ">\n\nLocations aren’t hidden. Russia flys over to check our all the time same as we fly over russias. Personally I think they were trying to tap our communications systems. Who knows.", ">\n\nNo you can’t spy! That’s only for the glowies in Virginia to do!", ">\n\nBet spreading Covid was a force majeure accident too, right China?", ">\n\nidk why America and China must be so adversarial.\nBesides being 2 different styles of gov, Bejing needs US as much as US needs those cheap goods coming in.\nWho knows how much tech China gets from the USA? If any foreign entity wants to do business in China, they have to be in some sort of partnership with a Chinese company (e.g. Car manufacturers). \nSomeone correct me if I’m wrong." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized.", ">\n\nLet's just hope it's not releasing any airborne containments", ">\n\nThey’re spreading a covid-like virus in those, just a theory", ">\n\nDon’t want to sound ignorant but isn’t this super embarrassing for the west? (Canada, US etc)? Like I understand why they haven’t shot it down yet but it’s probably gotten so much data on Anericas missle silos in the north, mid-west.", ">\n\nLocations aren’t hidden. Russia flys over to check our all the time same as we fly over russias. Personally I think they were trying to tap our communications systems. Who knows.", ">\n\nNo you can’t spy! That’s only for the glowies in Virginia to do!", ">\n\nBet spreading Covid was a force majeure accident too, right China?", ">\n\nidk why America and China must be so adversarial.\nBesides being 2 different styles of gov, Bejing needs US as much as US needs those cheap goods coming in.\nWho knows how much tech China gets from the USA? If any foreign entity wants to do business in China, they have to be in some sort of partnership with a Chinese company (e.g. Car manufacturers). \nSomeone correct me if I’m wrong.", ">\n\nShow us details like its pre-programmed waypoints, its satelite uplink to upload data, and its camera footage and we'll determine if it's a \"force majeure\" accident.\nThanks Winnie." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized.", ">\n\nLet's just hope it's not releasing any airborne containments", ">\n\nThey’re spreading a covid-like virus in those, just a theory", ">\n\nDon’t want to sound ignorant but isn’t this super embarrassing for the west? (Canada, US etc)? Like I understand why they haven’t shot it down yet but it’s probably gotten so much data on Anericas missle silos in the north, mid-west.", ">\n\nLocations aren’t hidden. Russia flys over to check our all the time same as we fly over russias. Personally I think they were trying to tap our communications systems. Who knows.", ">\n\nNo you can’t spy! That’s only for the glowies in Virginia to do!", ">\n\nBet spreading Covid was a force majeure accident too, right China?", ">\n\nidk why America and China must be so adversarial.\nBesides being 2 different styles of gov, Bejing needs US as much as US needs those cheap goods coming in.\nWho knows how much tech China gets from the USA? If any foreign entity wants to do business in China, they have to be in some sort of partnership with a Chinese company (e.g. Car manufacturers). \nSomeone correct me if I’m wrong.", ">\n\nShow us details like its pre-programmed waypoints, its satelite uplink to upload data, and its camera footage and we'll determine if it's a \"force majeure\" accident.\nThanks Winnie.", ">\n\n\"Sir, the Americans noticed one of our surveillance balloons, how should we respond?\"\n\"Hmm. Say we will have a statement by morning.\"\nthe next morning\n\"Hahaha oh OUR bad, those little things? WHOOPSIE! Won't happen again, pinky promise.\"" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized.", ">\n\nLet's just hope it's not releasing any airborne containments", ">\n\nThey’re spreading a covid-like virus in those, just a theory", ">\n\nDon’t want to sound ignorant but isn’t this super embarrassing for the west? (Canada, US etc)? Like I understand why they haven’t shot it down yet but it’s probably gotten so much data on Anericas missle silos in the north, mid-west.", ">\n\nLocations aren’t hidden. Russia flys over to check our all the time same as we fly over russias. Personally I think they were trying to tap our communications systems. Who knows.", ">\n\nNo you can’t spy! That’s only for the glowies in Virginia to do!", ">\n\nBet spreading Covid was a force majeure accident too, right China?", ">\n\nidk why America and China must be so adversarial.\nBesides being 2 different styles of gov, Bejing needs US as much as US needs those cheap goods coming in.\nWho knows how much tech China gets from the USA? If any foreign entity wants to do business in China, they have to be in some sort of partnership with a Chinese company (e.g. Car manufacturers). \nSomeone correct me if I’m wrong.", ">\n\nShow us details like its pre-programmed waypoints, its satelite uplink to upload data, and its camera footage and we'll determine if it's a \"force majeure\" accident.\nThanks Winnie.", ">\n\n\"Sir, the Americans noticed one of our surveillance balloons, how should we respond?\"\n\"Hmm. Say we will have a statement by morning.\"\nthe next morning\n\"Hahaha oh OUR bad, those little things? WHOOPSIE! Won't happen again, pinky promise.\"", ">\n\nIf they have no mal-intentions, they would have noticed the US earlier, not until they’re caught" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized.", ">\n\nLet's just hope it's not releasing any airborne containments", ">\n\nThey’re spreading a covid-like virus in those, just a theory", ">\n\nDon’t want to sound ignorant but isn’t this super embarrassing for the west? (Canada, US etc)? Like I understand why they haven’t shot it down yet but it’s probably gotten so much data on Anericas missle silos in the north, mid-west.", ">\n\nLocations aren’t hidden. Russia flys over to check our all the time same as we fly over russias. Personally I think they were trying to tap our communications systems. Who knows.", ">\n\nNo you can’t spy! That’s only for the glowies in Virginia to do!", ">\n\nBet spreading Covid was a force majeure accident too, right China?", ">\n\nidk why America and China must be so adversarial.\nBesides being 2 different styles of gov, Bejing needs US as much as US needs those cheap goods coming in.\nWho knows how much tech China gets from the USA? If any foreign entity wants to do business in China, they have to be in some sort of partnership with a Chinese company (e.g. Car manufacturers). \nSomeone correct me if I’m wrong.", ">\n\nShow us details like its pre-programmed waypoints, its satelite uplink to upload data, and its camera footage and we'll determine if it's a \"force majeure\" accident.\nThanks Winnie.", ">\n\n\"Sir, the Americans noticed one of our surveillance balloons, how should we respond?\"\n\"Hmm. Say we will have a statement by morning.\"\nthe next morning\n\"Hahaha oh OUR bad, those little things? WHOOPSIE! Won't happen again, pinky promise.\"", ">\n\nIf they have no mal-intentions, they would have noticed the US earlier, not until they’re caught", ">\n\nI can't understand how people think this balloon is spying, this is China, a country that has hundreds of \"police stations\" throughout Europe. If they wanted to gather info of any kind they wouldn't use a fucking balloon.\nThey most certainly have means to spy way more sophisticated than that, I would expect such a clumsy approach from a country like North Korea but not fucking China" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized.", ">\n\nLet's just hope it's not releasing any airborne containments", ">\n\nThey’re spreading a covid-like virus in those, just a theory", ">\n\nDon’t want to sound ignorant but isn’t this super embarrassing for the west? (Canada, US etc)? Like I understand why they haven’t shot it down yet but it’s probably gotten so much data on Anericas missle silos in the north, mid-west.", ">\n\nLocations aren’t hidden. Russia flys over to check our all the time same as we fly over russias. Personally I think they were trying to tap our communications systems. Who knows.", ">\n\nNo you can’t spy! That’s only for the glowies in Virginia to do!", ">\n\nBet spreading Covid was a force majeure accident too, right China?", ">\n\nidk why America and China must be so adversarial.\nBesides being 2 different styles of gov, Bejing needs US as much as US needs those cheap goods coming in.\nWho knows how much tech China gets from the USA? If any foreign entity wants to do business in China, they have to be in some sort of partnership with a Chinese company (e.g. Car manufacturers). \nSomeone correct me if I’m wrong.", ">\n\nShow us details like its pre-programmed waypoints, its satelite uplink to upload data, and its camera footage and we'll determine if it's a \"force majeure\" accident.\nThanks Winnie.", ">\n\n\"Sir, the Americans noticed one of our surveillance balloons, how should we respond?\"\n\"Hmm. Say we will have a statement by morning.\"\nthe next morning\n\"Hahaha oh OUR bad, those little things? WHOOPSIE! Won't happen again, pinky promise.\"", ">\n\nIf they have no mal-intentions, they would have noticed the US earlier, not until they’re caught", ">\n\nI can't understand how people think this balloon is spying, this is China, a country that has hundreds of \"police stations\" throughout Europe. If they wanted to gather info of any kind they wouldn't use a fucking balloon.\nThey most certainly have means to spy way more sophisticated than that, I would expect such a clumsy approach from a country like North Korea but not fucking China", ">\n\nWell, to be fair, layers of intelligence are better than single methods.\nThe funny thing is, a lot of people probably think this is the first balloon they've sent" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized.", ">\n\nLet's just hope it's not releasing any airborne containments", ">\n\nThey’re spreading a covid-like virus in those, just a theory", ">\n\nDon’t want to sound ignorant but isn’t this super embarrassing for the west? (Canada, US etc)? Like I understand why they haven’t shot it down yet but it’s probably gotten so much data on Anericas missle silos in the north, mid-west.", ">\n\nLocations aren’t hidden. Russia flys over to check our all the time same as we fly over russias. Personally I think they were trying to tap our communications systems. Who knows.", ">\n\nNo you can’t spy! That’s only for the glowies in Virginia to do!", ">\n\nBet spreading Covid was a force majeure accident too, right China?", ">\n\nidk why America and China must be so adversarial.\nBesides being 2 different styles of gov, Bejing needs US as much as US needs those cheap goods coming in.\nWho knows how much tech China gets from the USA? If any foreign entity wants to do business in China, they have to be in some sort of partnership with a Chinese company (e.g. Car manufacturers). \nSomeone correct me if I’m wrong.", ">\n\nShow us details like its pre-programmed waypoints, its satelite uplink to upload data, and its camera footage and we'll determine if it's a \"force majeure\" accident.\nThanks Winnie.", ">\n\n\"Sir, the Americans noticed one of our surveillance balloons, how should we respond?\"\n\"Hmm. Say we will have a statement by morning.\"\nthe next morning\n\"Hahaha oh OUR bad, those little things? WHOOPSIE! Won't happen again, pinky promise.\"", ">\n\nIf they have no mal-intentions, they would have noticed the US earlier, not until they’re caught", ">\n\nI can't understand how people think this balloon is spying, this is China, a country that has hundreds of \"police stations\" throughout Europe. If they wanted to gather info of any kind they wouldn't use a fucking balloon.\nThey most certainly have means to spy way more sophisticated than that, I would expect such a clumsy approach from a country like North Korea but not fucking China", ">\n\nWell, to be fair, layers of intelligence are better than single methods.\nThe funny thing is, a lot of people probably think this is the first balloon they've sent", ">\n\nHopefully someday the public can get all the facts and won’t just be relying on information from the disgraced intelligence community" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized.", ">\n\nLet's just hope it's not releasing any airborne containments", ">\n\nThey’re spreading a covid-like virus in those, just a theory", ">\n\nDon’t want to sound ignorant but isn’t this super embarrassing for the west? (Canada, US etc)? Like I understand why they haven’t shot it down yet but it’s probably gotten so much data on Anericas missle silos in the north, mid-west.", ">\n\nLocations aren’t hidden. Russia flys over to check our all the time same as we fly over russias. Personally I think they were trying to tap our communications systems. Who knows.", ">\n\nNo you can’t spy! That’s only for the glowies in Virginia to do!", ">\n\nBet spreading Covid was a force majeure accident too, right China?", ">\n\nidk why America and China must be so adversarial.\nBesides being 2 different styles of gov, Bejing needs US as much as US needs those cheap goods coming in.\nWho knows how much tech China gets from the USA? If any foreign entity wants to do business in China, they have to be in some sort of partnership with a Chinese company (e.g. Car manufacturers). \nSomeone correct me if I’m wrong.", ">\n\nShow us details like its pre-programmed waypoints, its satelite uplink to upload data, and its camera footage and we'll determine if it's a \"force majeure\" accident.\nThanks Winnie.", ">\n\n\"Sir, the Americans noticed one of our surveillance balloons, how should we respond?\"\n\"Hmm. Say we will have a statement by morning.\"\nthe next morning\n\"Hahaha oh OUR bad, those little things? WHOOPSIE! Won't happen again, pinky promise.\"", ">\n\nIf they have no mal-intentions, they would have noticed the US earlier, not until they’re caught", ">\n\nI can't understand how people think this balloon is spying, this is China, a country that has hundreds of \"police stations\" throughout Europe. If they wanted to gather info of any kind they wouldn't use a fucking balloon.\nThey most certainly have means to spy way more sophisticated than that, I would expect such a clumsy approach from a country like North Korea but not fucking China", ">\n\nWell, to be fair, layers of intelligence are better than single methods.\nThe funny thing is, a lot of people probably think this is the first balloon they've sent", ">\n\nHopefully someday the public can get all the facts and won’t just be relying on information from the disgraced intelligence community", ">\n\nYou know a country is weak when they use balloons to spy. It's a bit like Russia using nukes as threats. Its basically screams weakness. I can never understand how these countries fail to see the world laughing at them when they pull amatuer shit like this." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized.", ">\n\nLet's just hope it's not releasing any airborne containments", ">\n\nThey’re spreading a covid-like virus in those, just a theory", ">\n\nDon’t want to sound ignorant but isn’t this super embarrassing for the west? (Canada, US etc)? Like I understand why they haven’t shot it down yet but it’s probably gotten so much data on Anericas missle silos in the north, mid-west.", ">\n\nLocations aren’t hidden. Russia flys over to check our all the time same as we fly over russias. Personally I think they were trying to tap our communications systems. Who knows.", ">\n\nNo you can’t spy! That’s only for the glowies in Virginia to do!", ">\n\nBet spreading Covid was a force majeure accident too, right China?", ">\n\nidk why America and China must be so adversarial.\nBesides being 2 different styles of gov, Bejing needs US as much as US needs those cheap goods coming in.\nWho knows how much tech China gets from the USA? If any foreign entity wants to do business in China, they have to be in some sort of partnership with a Chinese company (e.g. Car manufacturers). \nSomeone correct me if I’m wrong.", ">\n\nShow us details like its pre-programmed waypoints, its satelite uplink to upload data, and its camera footage and we'll determine if it's a \"force majeure\" accident.\nThanks Winnie.", ">\n\n\"Sir, the Americans noticed one of our surveillance balloons, how should we respond?\"\n\"Hmm. Say we will have a statement by morning.\"\nthe next morning\n\"Hahaha oh OUR bad, those little things? WHOOPSIE! Won't happen again, pinky promise.\"", ">\n\nIf they have no mal-intentions, they would have noticed the US earlier, not until they’re caught", ">\n\nI can't understand how people think this balloon is spying, this is China, a country that has hundreds of \"police stations\" throughout Europe. If they wanted to gather info of any kind they wouldn't use a fucking balloon.\nThey most certainly have means to spy way more sophisticated than that, I would expect such a clumsy approach from a country like North Korea but not fucking China", ">\n\nWell, to be fair, layers of intelligence are better than single methods.\nThe funny thing is, a lot of people probably think this is the first balloon they've sent", ">\n\nHopefully someday the public can get all the facts and won’t just be relying on information from the disgraced intelligence community", ">\n\nYou know a country is weak when they use balloons to spy. It's a bit like Russia using nukes as threats. Its basically screams weakness. I can never understand how these countries fail to see the world laughing at them when they pull amatuer shit like this.", ">\n\nUhm, where exactly did you expect it to go? If it is a scientific experiment they would have had a plan and a number of projections of possible paths. Share some of that info and I will believe an experiment gone wrong, otherwise…🤷‍♂️" ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized.", ">\n\nLet's just hope it's not releasing any airborne containments", ">\n\nThey’re spreading a covid-like virus in those, just a theory", ">\n\nDon’t want to sound ignorant but isn’t this super embarrassing for the west? (Canada, US etc)? Like I understand why they haven’t shot it down yet but it’s probably gotten so much data on Anericas missle silos in the north, mid-west.", ">\n\nLocations aren’t hidden. Russia flys over to check our all the time same as we fly over russias. Personally I think they were trying to tap our communications systems. Who knows.", ">\n\nNo you can’t spy! That’s only for the glowies in Virginia to do!", ">\n\nBet spreading Covid was a force majeure accident too, right China?", ">\n\nidk why America and China must be so adversarial.\nBesides being 2 different styles of gov, Bejing needs US as much as US needs those cheap goods coming in.\nWho knows how much tech China gets from the USA? If any foreign entity wants to do business in China, they have to be in some sort of partnership with a Chinese company (e.g. Car manufacturers). \nSomeone correct me if I’m wrong.", ">\n\nShow us details like its pre-programmed waypoints, its satelite uplink to upload data, and its camera footage and we'll determine if it's a \"force majeure\" accident.\nThanks Winnie.", ">\n\n\"Sir, the Americans noticed one of our surveillance balloons, how should we respond?\"\n\"Hmm. Say we will have a statement by morning.\"\nthe next morning\n\"Hahaha oh OUR bad, those little things? WHOOPSIE! Won't happen again, pinky promise.\"", ">\n\nIf they have no mal-intentions, they would have noticed the US earlier, not until they’re caught", ">\n\nI can't understand how people think this balloon is spying, this is China, a country that has hundreds of \"police stations\" throughout Europe. If they wanted to gather info of any kind they wouldn't use a fucking balloon.\nThey most certainly have means to spy way more sophisticated than that, I would expect such a clumsy approach from a country like North Korea but not fucking China", ">\n\nWell, to be fair, layers of intelligence are better than single methods.\nThe funny thing is, a lot of people probably think this is the first balloon they've sent", ">\n\nHopefully someday the public can get all the facts and won’t just be relying on information from the disgraced intelligence community", ">\n\nYou know a country is weak when they use balloons to spy. It's a bit like Russia using nukes as threats. Its basically screams weakness. I can never understand how these countries fail to see the world laughing at them when they pull amatuer shit like this.", ">\n\nUhm, where exactly did you expect it to go? If it is a scientific experiment they would have had a plan and a number of projections of possible paths. Share some of that info and I will believe an experiment gone wrong, otherwise…🤷‍♂️", ">\n\nThe amount of people that don’t believe balloons could get blown off course is over-hyping this entire thing." ]

[ "Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD", ">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?", ">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand", ">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.", ">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨", ">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.", ">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around.", ">\n\nIt’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡", ">\n\nDid you see the post about Steven King too?", ">\n\nWhat post? Don't tell me he died!", ">\n\nSo they'd have no problem with us bringing down their \"errant\" balloon?", ">\n\nWe’re about to find out", ">\n\nI might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-\nIf there wasn’t another one over South America. \nTwo just seems a little too much of a coincidence. \nI guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh.", ">\n\nOnce is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. \nI’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion.", ">\n\nfool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again", ">\n\n*throws shoe*", ">\n\n*dodges*\n*throws other shoe*\n*dodges again*", ">\n\nGeorge Bush don’t care about Shoe people", ">\n\nHilariously, neither does Ye anymore.", ">\n\nGreat follow up.", ">\n\nAdidas dropped him, didn't they?", ">\n\nYes they did. 300 mil down the drain.", ">\n\nForce Majeure in their vocabulary is \" caught in the act\".", ">\n\nFind a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois", ">\n\nMaybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with.", ">\n\nChina doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.\nRussia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s.", ">\n\nIndia is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now.", ">\n\nchina: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers.", ">\n\nThat costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier.", ">\n\nInsane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info", ">\n\nInsane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up", ">\n\nWell the two are very different so why would those be brought up?", ">\n\nDifference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad?", ">\n\nThe level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined", ">\n\nIf you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao", ">\n\nLol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho", ">\n\n\nthrough a third party\n\nIs the US government a third party though?\nSurely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said\n\nRiiight, riight, right.", ">\n\nEvery other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one.", ">\n\nChina has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol", ">\n\nI do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s", ">\n\nJapan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc", ">\n\nNow it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America.", ">\n\n“We are very sorry that we got caught”", ">\n\nWeather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America.", ">\n\nChina and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo.", ">\n\nYeah, but [insert whataboutism here]?", ">\n\nThey are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm.", ">\n\nYep. I just caught a \"The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]\"\nOn a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies.", ">\n\n99 red balloons go by", ">\n\nI would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload. Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.", ">\n\n\nMaybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.\n\nIt's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher.", ">\n\nFurther, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus…", ">\n\nYeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula.", ">\n\nGeostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.\nExamples: \nNOAA GOES EAST\nNOAA GOES WEST", ">\n\ncool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO.", ">\n\nSure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone", ">\n\nI've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc?", ">\n\n\nSorry\n\nA word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.\n\nChina's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese \"airship\" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.\n\nFigures. A \"higher power\" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US.", ">\n\nNo apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real.", ">\n\nRussia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you.", ">\n\nTikTok that!", ">\n\nGod himself could come down and confirm this as an \"Act of Me\" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. \"Spy balloon\" is well within the batshit insane realm.", ">\n\nCmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident.", ">\n\nYou're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely", ">\n\nThey are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air.", ">\n\nI’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by.", ">\n\nThe U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them.", ">\n\nChinese version of \"Sphere\" of influence xD", ">\n\nChina admitted not having the technology to control an airship.", ">\n\nIt's probably a distraction.", ">\n\nAre we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?\nI mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing...", ">\n\nIts weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. \nChina if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger.", ">\n\nIn defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.\nMaking a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.\nChina still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. \n100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.\nThe other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be.", ">\n\nyour argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon", ">\n\nto that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful.", ">\n\nnah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do", ">\n\nthe media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first?", ">\n\nbig diff between the media drumming up fear and \"western propaganda\" lol. and again, america does not need to have any \"dirt\" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves", ">\n\ni guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese \"whoops!\" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful.", ">\n\nYeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now.....", ">\n\nMaybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾", ">\n\nAka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with hypersonic missiles via balloon……..\nLaunch a few and see if the US can track…\nIn tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few. \nCarrier port of call in Taiwan time…", ">\n\nI mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.", ">\n\nForeign spy balloons are no big deal but if you, a U.S. citizen, try to fly a pocket drone over an empty field in Yellowstone National Park, the Feds will be on it stat.", ">\n\nIt is no big deal. Its two balloons. 1/8th of our planet logs into tiktok every month, volunteering all the footage of everything everywhere all the time. And drones in national parks are a genuine hazard to wildlife.", ">\n\nWe are sorry we got caught.", ">\n\nit would be a real shame for it to have an ACCIDENT over some of the more remote parts of America, and we get a sweet look at that 5000 mega pixel surveillance gear they've been bragging about. \nBet the only reason it's still up is the CIA or what ever alphabet soup agency is trying to figure out the best opportunity and or cover story", ">\n\nWe just saw it over pineville, nc. Several jets flying around the area as well. It was headed southwest.", ">\n\nThey just shot it down over South Carolina. My mother in law said it was really loud", ">\n\nA friend of mine has posted a few snaps of a “balloon” being shot down over myrtle beach…", ">\n\nI thought it was a croque monsieur incident.", ">\n\n\n\"China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries,\" the ministry said in a statement.\n\nTaiwan will be happy to hear of this new position.", ">\n\nForce majeure usually comes with notifying the country first, so nah.", ">\n\nIf you legit don’t think this is a spy device you are a kook.", ">\n\nA farce manure? Yeah, sounds about right.", ">\n\nMaybe we haven’t damaged it because we hacked it and are watching what it attempts to analyze. We see you, too.", ">\n\nOver the state where nuclear war heads are stored? A bit sus...", ">\n\nNever trust what China says. Whatever they say, it’s most likely the opposite. Maybe once in a while what they say is true but they’re just way too untrustworthy. Trusting anything they say is like trusting your cheating ex that this time they’re different.", ">\n\nSo it’s not a weather balloon \nIt wasn’t NOT intentional \nAnd they aren’t sorry about it.\nThanks, mate. I think I understand Chinese now.", ">\n\nYeah accident, right over MOTSU and Fort Bragg... If you don't know what MOTSU is google it. Biggest weapons depot port the military has.", ">\n\nAh yes, two things their satellites never see!", ">\n\nSure their sats see it, but I find it rather strange that their accidental course flew over both the army's biggest base and their biggest weapons depot. I live directly next MOTSU, fighter jets were scarmbled all over the place which is not usual. Obviously the military was on high alert.", ">\n\nMilitary has been on high alert before it even hit us airspace.", ">\n\nOur international airport is shutdown because of the balloon as well so fighter jets can guard motsu.", ">\n\ntheir cloud camo machine malfunctioned... wonk wonk....\nthe real accident was, it got noticed...lol", ">\n\nBalloon shmaloon. What I care about is why did they cancel the Blinken 182 china tour?", ">\n\nAll the small things just keep adding up.", ">\n\nIf you don’t think this was an intentional act you haven’t been paying attention to China recently", ">\n\nThis is not a weather balloon as the Chinese claim, but rather a trial balloon to see how the US reacts. It has been reported that such a balloon could in fact carry a nuclear weapon or biological weapon. The US needs tell the Chinese and no uncertain terms that the presence of these balloons over the US is totally unacceptable.", ">\n\nMy F150 can carry a nuke. A country with ICBMs since the 70s would rely on balloons? Literally stuck in 1950s red scare mentality.", ">\n\nAn accident that’s been ongoing for weeks? \nChina, come on. You sound like those cheaters who get busted with their pants down. At least try to come up with an interesting lie", ">\n\nObviously China has sent this on purpose. \nObviously China does not need to send a fucking giant balloon that’s visible with the naked eye to conduct its spying.\nSo why would they do this?\nI’m leaning in the direction that it’s an intentional poke in the eye to the US", ">\n\nI’m willing to bet they wanted more of a reaction from american civilians than military. I’ve read nothing short of conspiracies with the balloon having EMPs, WMDs, diseases, the whole nine. More now than ever am I seeing people behave schizophrenic over something so insignificant", ">\n\nFool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on Woo.", ">\n\nChina is a force majeure accident.", ">\n\nHonestly China's messaging on this is hilarious. Like, everything they're saying is the opposite of the truth.", ">\n\nMy bet is that once it's over the ocean the US shoots it down", ">\n\nDid Canada not see it?", ">\n\nITT: People with no knowledge of aerospace, optics or cold-war spy-history trying to sound smart and/or push an agenda.", ">\n\nAnd China with full knowledge of aerospace, optics and cold war spy history doesn’t know how to control an airship.", ">\n\nWhile I don’t think the balloon is an accident it is likely them testing the reaction. Like flying close to the line testing readiness etc. China is sophisticated in their defense. They can spy many ways and if they just cut off supplies they can attack without a military. A large percentage of our generic drugs come from them. They are a world power and wealthy. They have all the tools we have. They also have leverage over tech companies that operate in China. Foxconn for Apple is designated as a city in China so while it may be owned by a Taiwanese company China has control. TikTok as well. Bottom line is that they likely aren’t interested in war because they too depend on us. That doesn’t mean they won’t continue to probe or spy. Our government wants to do the same to them. Our government also has the power to do the same to us. \nIt’s like 2016, the Russians…. The Russians… yet the truth was that wasn’t the first time Russia influenced our elections. China wants too as well and tries. We do that where we can and where we can’t we don’t mind a little insurrection on foreign soil. This is just how World Powers operate.", ">\n\nMurphy's law for soldiers: Once is accident, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action.", ">\n\nThree balloons is a birthday party thank you very much", ">\n\nI seriously doubt it was a spy balloon because a) China claimed ownership almost immediately and admitted fault, b) they have far more advanced and subtle ways of spying, and c) TikTok is already on millions of phones across the country.", ">\n\nHow nice it would be I'd that was the biggest problem on this world!", ">\n\nIt's hilarious how triggered Americans are getting over this spy balloon yet they don't give a shit about the hundreds of spy satellites, Tik Tok, or the NSA.", ">\n\nIt's because it's too hard to comprehend how all of those other things work and it's too obscured from public understanding.\nNow a balloon with a camera?! Hot damn, I know what that is!", ">\n\nOpinion: It's not a surveillance, it's a measuring device for their hypersonic missile, just like a sniper would need a reference (e.g. pole) when shooting on someone (e.g. on stage) . \nSo the next time they fly something like this (that's a cue), it could be the start of a war!", ">\n\nYou may have a point. It's a couple of months ago Xi Jingpin declared himself ruler for life and soon after that he appeared in military uniform telling his army to prepare for war. But let's hope it is just drifting out of control.", ">\n\nHere's a US National Weather Service balloon.\nHere's the Chinese balloon.\nTell me now about force majeure. Because I'm sure the Chinese one doesn't have a mail return bag.", ">\n\nThis is also a type of weather balloon, CSBF launches around a dozen balloons like that a year with various space and weather related payloads", ">\n\nBingo!\nWhen everyone hears \"weather balloon\" they think of the Radiosonde type balloons that every NWS station launches multiple times a day but never think that a weather balloon is just a balloon platform used to study weather and could really be any size or payload", ">\n\nYep, these balloons study upper-atmosphere weather, ozone, all sorts of stuff radiosonde balloons can’t. And they can stay up for a really long time. It’s totally plausible that they launched a few of these and they broke because they don’t have a lot of experience in it.", ">\n\nThey are acting like a regretful Civilization V leader when they get caught spying.", ">\n\nI might believe them too, except for there being only 9% air density (compared to sea level) at 60,000 feet, and an average wind speed under 15 mph, meaning the force \"majeure\" exerted on the hull would be equivalent to that of sea level winds of 1.35 mph.", ">\n\nNothing would hurt China more than to reallocate our trade contracts. It would be a higher short term cost, no doubt, but prices would be back in the long term. No reason for physical retaliation. Let’s hit em where it hurts!", ">\n\nNo one tell them about satellites! [edit: /s, I didn't notice I was on a big subreddit or I wouldn't have commented at all, lol]", ">\n\nThey literally have a rover on the moon...not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not.", ">\n\nusa will never spy other countries FOR SURE.", ">\n\nAnd yeah we believe that.", ">\n\nIts a thing now - as soon as it hits the atlantic or anywhere near assets in Norfolk its toast. Nice time to impress the world with laser weapons . \nMaybe force “majeure crash” it on the Chinese embassy.", ">\n\nI keep seeing on the news that it has maneuverability…", ">\n\nNot much and not very well, but it can influence its path.", ">\n\nWhy are the Chinese speaking french all of a sudden?", ">\n\nTrying to sound civilized.", ">\n\nLet's just hope it's not releasing any airborne containments", ">\n\nThey’re spreading a covid-like virus in those, just a theory", ">\n\nDon’t want to sound ignorant but isn’t this super embarrassing for the west? (Canada, US etc)? Like I understand why they haven’t shot it down yet but it’s probably gotten so much data on Anericas missle silos in the north, mid-west.", ">\n\nLocations aren’t hidden. Russia flys over to check our all the time same as we fly over russias. Personally I think they were trying to tap our communications systems. Who knows.", ">\n\nNo you can’t spy! That’s only for the glowies in Virginia to do!", ">\n\nBet spreading Covid was a force majeure accident too, right China?", ">\n\nidk why America and China must be so adversarial.\nBesides being 2 different styles of gov, Bejing needs US as much as US needs those cheap goods coming in.\nWho knows how much tech China gets from the USA? If any foreign entity wants to do business in China, they have to be in some sort of partnership with a Chinese company (e.g. Car manufacturers). \nSomeone correct me if I’m wrong.", ">\n\nShow us details like its pre-programmed waypoints, its satelite uplink to upload data, and its camera footage and we'll determine if it's a \"force majeure\" accident.\nThanks Winnie.", ">\n\n\"Sir, the Americans noticed one of our surveillance balloons, how should we respond?\"\n\"Hmm. Say we will have a statement by morning.\"\nthe next morning\n\"Hahaha oh OUR bad, those little things? WHOOPSIE! Won't happen again, pinky promise.\"", ">\n\nIf they have no mal-intentions, they would have noticed the US earlier, not until they’re caught", ">\n\nI can't understand how people think this balloon is spying, this is China, a country that has hundreds of \"police stations\" throughout Europe. If they wanted to gather info of any kind they wouldn't use a fucking balloon.\nThey most certainly have means to spy way more sophisticated than that, I would expect such a clumsy approach from a country like North Korea but not fucking China", ">\n\nWell, to be fair, layers of intelligence are better than single methods.\nThe funny thing is, a lot of people probably think this is the first balloon they've sent", ">\n\nHopefully someday the public can get all the facts and won’t just be relying on information from the disgraced intelligence community", ">\n\nYou know a country is weak when they use balloons to spy. It's a bit like Russia using nukes as threats. Its basically screams weakness. I can never understand how these countries fail to see the world laughing at them when they pull amatuer shit like this.", ">\n\nUhm, where exactly did you expect it to go? If it is a scientific experiment they would have had a plan and a number of projections of possible paths. Share some of that info and I will believe an experiment gone wrong, otherwise…🤷‍♂️", ">\n\nThe amount of people that don’t believe balloons could get blown off course is over-hyping this entire thing.", ">\n\nYes, multiple Chinese balloons have been blown off course this week. Totally plausible." ]

[]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant.", ">\n\n“Small government” wants to know whats going on in everyone’s pants?" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant.", ">\n\n“Small government” wants to know whats going on in everyone’s pants?", ">\n\nHave you seen what's going on in Hunter Biden's pants?!\nTune in to Fox News to find out!!!" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant.", ">\n\n“Small government” wants to know whats going on in everyone’s pants?", ">\n\nHave you seen what's going on in Hunter Biden's pants?!\nTune in to Fox News to find out!!!", ">\n\nI hear it'll be huge!" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant.", ">\n\n“Small government” wants to know whats going on in everyone’s pants?", ">\n\nHave you seen what's going on in Hunter Biden's pants?!\nTune in to Fox News to find out!!!", ">\n\nI hear it'll be huge!", ">\n\nIt’s a big fuckin’ deal." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant.", ">\n\n“Small government” wants to know whats going on in everyone’s pants?", ">\n\nHave you seen what's going on in Hunter Biden's pants?!\nTune in to Fox News to find out!!!", ">\n\nI hear it'll be huge!", ">\n\nIt’s a big fuckin’ deal.", ">\n\nThe sooner Florida is turned back into an alligator farm, the better for all of America." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant.", ">\n\n“Small government” wants to know whats going on in everyone’s pants?", ">\n\nHave you seen what's going on in Hunter Biden's pants?!\nTune in to Fox News to find out!!!", ">\n\nI hear it'll be huge!", ">\n\nIt’s a big fuckin’ deal.", ">\n\nThe sooner Florida is turned back into an alligator farm, the better for all of America.", ">\n\nIt’ll be better when it’s all beachfront property in Georgia." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant.", ">\n\n“Small government” wants to know whats going on in everyone’s pants?", ">\n\nHave you seen what's going on in Hunter Biden's pants?!\nTune in to Fox News to find out!!!", ">\n\nI hear it'll be huge!", ">\n\nIt’s a big fuckin’ deal.", ">\n\nThe sooner Florida is turned back into an alligator farm, the better for all of America.", ">\n\nIt’ll be better when it’s all beachfront property in Georgia.", ">\n\nWon’t be too long." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant.", ">\n\n“Small government” wants to know whats going on in everyone’s pants?", ">\n\nHave you seen what's going on in Hunter Biden's pants?!\nTune in to Fox News to find out!!!", ">\n\nI hear it'll be huge!", ">\n\nIt’s a big fuckin’ deal.", ">\n\nThe sooner Florida is turned back into an alligator farm, the better for all of America.", ">\n\nIt’ll be better when it’s all beachfront property in Georgia.", ">\n\nWon’t be too long.", ">\n\nGOP: My privacy!\nThen they do shit like this." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant.", ">\n\n“Small government” wants to know whats going on in everyone’s pants?", ">\n\nHave you seen what's going on in Hunter Biden's pants?!\nTune in to Fox News to find out!!!", ">\n\nI hear it'll be huge!", ">\n\nIt’s a big fuckin’ deal.", ">\n\nThe sooner Florida is turned back into an alligator farm, the better for all of America.", ">\n\nIt’ll be better when it’s all beachfront property in Georgia.", ">\n\nWon’t be too long.", ">\n\nGOP: My privacy!\nThen they do shit like this.", ">\n\nWearing a mask to prevent infection during a pandemic is government overkill despite massive scientific support yet demanding details of menstrual cycles for no known reason is perfectly reasonable. Without hypocrisy, Republicans would have absolutely nothing." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant.", ">\n\n“Small government” wants to know whats going on in everyone’s pants?", ">\n\nHave you seen what's going on in Hunter Biden's pants?!\nTune in to Fox News to find out!!!", ">\n\nI hear it'll be huge!", ">\n\nIt’s a big fuckin’ deal.", ">\n\nThe sooner Florida is turned back into an alligator farm, the better for all of America.", ">\n\nIt’ll be better when it’s all beachfront property in Georgia.", ">\n\nWon’t be too long.", ">\n\nGOP: My privacy!\nThen they do shit like this.", ">\n\nWearing a mask to prevent infection during a pandemic is government overkill despite massive scientific support yet demanding details of menstrual cycles for no known reason is perfectly reasonable. Without hypocrisy, Republicans would have absolutely nothing.", ">\n\nThey want it 1: say girls sports is harmful to proper development bod will ban girls sports 2: prosecute for missed periods 3: go after you for teenage sex" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant.", ">\n\n“Small government” wants to know whats going on in everyone’s pants?", ">\n\nHave you seen what's going on in Hunter Biden's pants?!\nTune in to Fox News to find out!!!", ">\n\nI hear it'll be huge!", ">\n\nIt’s a big fuckin’ deal.", ">\n\nThe sooner Florida is turned back into an alligator farm, the better for all of America.", ">\n\nIt’ll be better when it’s all beachfront property in Georgia.", ">\n\nWon’t be too long.", ">\n\nGOP: My privacy!\nThen they do shit like this.", ">\n\nWearing a mask to prevent infection during a pandemic is government overkill despite massive scientific support yet demanding details of menstrual cycles for no known reason is perfectly reasonable. Without hypocrisy, Republicans would have absolutely nothing.", ">\n\nThey want it 1: say girls sports is harmful to proper development bod will ban girls sports 2: prosecute for missed periods 3: go after you for teenage sex", ">\n\nIn other words, ways the government take away parental rights and make life harder for teenage girls. Seems odd from a government that’s insisting parents have complete control over what kids read and are taught in school. But hypocrisy, right?" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant.", ">\n\n“Small government” wants to know whats going on in everyone’s pants?", ">\n\nHave you seen what's going on in Hunter Biden's pants?!\nTune in to Fox News to find out!!!", ">\n\nI hear it'll be huge!", ">\n\nIt’s a big fuckin’ deal.", ">\n\nThe sooner Florida is turned back into an alligator farm, the better for all of America.", ">\n\nIt’ll be better when it’s all beachfront property in Georgia.", ">\n\nWon’t be too long.", ">\n\nGOP: My privacy!\nThen they do shit like this.", ">\n\nWearing a mask to prevent infection during a pandemic is government overkill despite massive scientific support yet demanding details of menstrual cycles for no known reason is perfectly reasonable. Without hypocrisy, Republicans would have absolutely nothing.", ">\n\nThey want it 1: say girls sports is harmful to proper development bod will ban girls sports 2: prosecute for missed periods 3: go after you for teenage sex", ">\n\nIn other words, ways the government take away parental rights and make life harder for teenage girls. Seems odd from a government that’s insisting parents have complete control over what kids read and are taught in school. But hypocrisy, right?", ">\n\nEvery single athlete should refuse to provide this information." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant.", ">\n\n“Small government” wants to know whats going on in everyone’s pants?", ">\n\nHave you seen what's going on in Hunter Biden's pants?!\nTune in to Fox News to find out!!!", ">\n\nI hear it'll be huge!", ">\n\nIt’s a big fuckin’ deal.", ">\n\nThe sooner Florida is turned back into an alligator farm, the better for all of America.", ">\n\nIt’ll be better when it’s all beachfront property in Georgia.", ">\n\nWon’t be too long.", ">\n\nGOP: My privacy!\nThen they do shit like this.", ">\n\nWearing a mask to prevent infection during a pandemic is government overkill despite massive scientific support yet demanding details of menstrual cycles for no known reason is perfectly reasonable. Without hypocrisy, Republicans would have absolutely nothing.", ">\n\nThey want it 1: say girls sports is harmful to proper development bod will ban girls sports 2: prosecute for missed periods 3: go after you for teenage sex", ">\n\nIn other words, ways the government take away parental rights and make life harder for teenage girls. Seems odd from a government that’s insisting parents have complete control over what kids read and are taught in school. But hypocrisy, right?", ">\n\nEvery single athlete should refuse to provide this information.", ">\n\nI can think of no sane reason for this. There are several republican reasons. But no sane ones." ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant.", ">\n\n“Small government” wants to know whats going on in everyone’s pants?", ">\n\nHave you seen what's going on in Hunter Biden's pants?!\nTune in to Fox News to find out!!!", ">\n\nI hear it'll be huge!", ">\n\nIt’s a big fuckin’ deal.", ">\n\nThe sooner Florida is turned back into an alligator farm, the better for all of America.", ">\n\nIt’ll be better when it’s all beachfront property in Georgia.", ">\n\nWon’t be too long.", ">\n\nGOP: My privacy!\nThen they do shit like this.", ">\n\nWearing a mask to prevent infection during a pandemic is government overkill despite massive scientific support yet demanding details of menstrual cycles for no known reason is perfectly reasonable. Without hypocrisy, Republicans would have absolutely nothing.", ">\n\nThey want it 1: say girls sports is harmful to proper development bod will ban girls sports 2: prosecute for missed periods 3: go after you for teenage sex", ">\n\nIn other words, ways the government take away parental rights and make life harder for teenage girls. Seems odd from a government that’s insisting parents have complete control over what kids read and are taught in school. But hypocrisy, right?", ">\n\nEvery single athlete should refuse to provide this information.", ">\n\nI can think of no sane reason for this. There are several republican reasons. But no sane ones.", ">\n\nAs long as they are erasing Black History and Attacking The Gays, Conservatives will literally feed thier Daughters to Republicans even if they are proven Sex Offenders like Matt Gaetz and his Accomplices" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant.", ">\n\n“Small government” wants to know whats going on in everyone’s pants?", ">\n\nHave you seen what's going on in Hunter Biden's pants?!\nTune in to Fox News to find out!!!", ">\n\nI hear it'll be huge!", ">\n\nIt’s a big fuckin’ deal.", ">\n\nThe sooner Florida is turned back into an alligator farm, the better for all of America.", ">\n\nIt’ll be better when it’s all beachfront property in Georgia.", ">\n\nWon’t be too long.", ">\n\nGOP: My privacy!\nThen they do shit like this.", ">\n\nWearing a mask to prevent infection during a pandemic is government overkill despite massive scientific support yet demanding details of menstrual cycles for no known reason is perfectly reasonable. Without hypocrisy, Republicans would have absolutely nothing.", ">\n\nThey want it 1: say girls sports is harmful to proper development bod will ban girls sports 2: prosecute for missed periods 3: go after you for teenage sex", ">\n\nIn other words, ways the government take away parental rights and make life harder for teenage girls. Seems odd from a government that’s insisting parents have complete control over what kids read and are taught in school. But hypocrisy, right?", ">\n\nEvery single athlete should refuse to provide this information.", ">\n\nI can think of no sane reason for this. There are several republican reasons. But no sane ones.", ">\n\nAs long as they are erasing Black History and Attacking The Gays, Conservatives will literally feed thier Daughters to Republicans even if they are proven Sex Offenders like Matt Gaetz and his Accomplices", ">\n\nSounds a lot like the Handmaids tale" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant.", ">\n\n“Small government” wants to know whats going on in everyone’s pants?", ">\n\nHave you seen what's going on in Hunter Biden's pants?!\nTune in to Fox News to find out!!!", ">\n\nI hear it'll be huge!", ">\n\nIt’s a big fuckin’ deal.", ">\n\nThe sooner Florida is turned back into an alligator farm, the better for all of America.", ">\n\nIt’ll be better when it’s all beachfront property in Georgia.", ">\n\nWon’t be too long.", ">\n\nGOP: My privacy!\nThen they do shit like this.", ">\n\nWearing a mask to prevent infection during a pandemic is government overkill despite massive scientific support yet demanding details of menstrual cycles for no known reason is perfectly reasonable. Without hypocrisy, Republicans would have absolutely nothing.", ">\n\nThey want it 1: say girls sports is harmful to proper development bod will ban girls sports 2: prosecute for missed periods 3: go after you for teenage sex", ">\n\nIn other words, ways the government take away parental rights and make life harder for teenage girls. Seems odd from a government that’s insisting parents have complete control over what kids read and are taught in school. But hypocrisy, right?", ">\n\nEvery single athlete should refuse to provide this information.", ">\n\nI can think of no sane reason for this. There are several republican reasons. But no sane ones.", ">\n\nAs long as they are erasing Black History and Attacking The Gays, Conservatives will literally feed thier Daughters to Republicans even if they are proven Sex Offenders like Matt Gaetz and his Accomplices", ">\n\nSounds a lot like the Handmaids tale", ">\n\nThe government creating an apparatus to track people's menstrual cycles at a young age. Sounds like an obvious violation of privacy, but something tells me 6 supreme court justices will disagree" ]

[ "Even if you only looked at the medical aspect it's nonsense, as it's a known fact that extreme athletic activity can disrupt menstrual cycles.", ">\n\ni guarantee theyll use it to hunt abortions.", ">\n\nAnd stringing up the trans kids. (I'm parent to a trans teen in Florida, he's not even going to public school at this point, as a sophomore... Fuck Florida.)", ">\n\nRun. Run and never look back. For your son's sake.", ">\n\nOur lease is up in July and we're intending to move out of state. Trying to overlay maps of trans care protections, and homeschool laws, and where he may want to go to college and be a state citizen for admission purposes, while dealing with his new autism diagnosis, and figure out tax laws bc I'm self employed... It's nuts.", ">\n\nI wish your beautiful family well, my friend.", ">\n\nAww, thank you so much!! Same too you!!", ">\n\nWearing a mask was too much, but this is totally fine for the government to require?", ">\n\nIf it’s for controlling the breeding stock it’s fine.", ">\n\nJoke's on them; COVID has some effect on fertility.", ">\n\nThis is fucking weird, creepy, and invasive. \nAll straight male administrators involved in female athletics should be required to undergo penile plethysmography on a monthly basis.", ">\n\nWow the volume and pressure are decreasing!?", ">\n\nGonna mark you down for a weak stream Mr Smallwood. Try not to sit as much and - have you been keeping up with your Kegals?", ">\n\nAs soon as I read this I tightened up", ">\n\nAhh, already practicing for the procedures I see! Good for you!!", ">\n\nParty of small gov't amirite?", ">\n\ni'm kind of expecting fl or a similar state to eventually ban school girls from sports, using \"it's the only way to protect them from trans kids\" as an excuse (and ofc it'll also be a test run for banning adult women's sports further down the line)", ">\n\nThey’ll never do that. This whole freak out is about asshole parents salty because their daughter might come in 2nd place to a Trans athlete. It’s all about winning. They might say high school sports are about teamwork or learning life lessons, but all they care about is to be able to brag in church about how “my daughter was conference champ this year”. You notice how they’re not freaking out about men’s sports? What they probably will try is to “privatize” women’s sports to club sports so they can bar anyone they don’t like from competing.", ">\n\nWTAF Florida, this is why no one likes you.", ">\n\nWe don't like it either, but the gerrymandering means only assholes gain effective power down here.", ">\n\nAnyone else remember when Republicans claimed that they didn't believe government should be involved in healthcare.", ">\n\nYou mean like yesterday and all the days before it?", ">\n\nIs there any benefit to the athlete to answer this information truthfully? Because it's none of their business, at all.", ">\n\nEvery day, period.", ">\n\nJust report zero days for all women. Make them prove otherwise.", ">\n\nthen republicans will imprison them for possibly being pregnant.", ">\n\n“Small government” wants to know whats going on in everyone’s pants?", ">\n\nHave you seen what's going on in Hunter Biden's pants?!\nTune in to Fox News to find out!!!", ">\n\nI hear it'll be huge!", ">\n\nIt’s a big fuckin’ deal.", ">\n\nThe sooner Florida is turned back into an alligator farm, the better for all of America.", ">\n\nIt’ll be better when it’s all beachfront property in Georgia.", ">\n\nWon’t be too long.", ">\n\nGOP: My privacy!\nThen they do shit like this.", ">\n\nWearing a mask to prevent infection during a pandemic is government overkill despite massive scientific support yet demanding details of menstrual cycles for no known reason is perfectly reasonable. Without hypocrisy, Republicans would have absolutely nothing.", ">\n\nThey want it 1: say girls sports is harmful to proper development bod will ban girls sports 2: prosecute for missed periods 3: go after you for teenage sex", ">\n\nIn other words, ways the government take away parental rights and make life harder for teenage girls. Seems odd from a government that’s insisting parents have complete control over what kids read and are taught in school. But hypocrisy, right?", ">\n\nEvery single athlete should refuse to provide this information.", ">\n\nI can think of no sane reason for this. There are several republican reasons. But no sane ones.", ">\n\nAs long as they are erasing Black History and Attacking The Gays, Conservatives will literally feed thier Daughters to Republicans even if they are proven Sex Offenders like Matt Gaetz and his Accomplices", ">\n\nSounds a lot like the Handmaids tale", ">\n\nThe government creating an apparatus to track people's menstrual cycles at a young age. Sounds like an obvious violation of privacy, but something tells me 6 supreme court justices will disagree", ">\n\n\"The founding fathers never enshrined a right to private menses in the constitution, therefore they must have wanted all female citizens to be fitted with uterine tracking devices.\"" ]