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My guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.
The fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.
For all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it."
] |
>
Lol.
This thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos.
I'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China."
] |
>
I think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :). | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now."
] |
>
Sats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :)."
] |
>
Damn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing."
] |
>
Intel received from [email protected] | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps."
] |
>
It’s just TikTok’s new mobile router | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]"
] |
>
Time for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a "gender reveal" gone wrong tee hee... | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router"
] |
>
Now there's a second one in our hemisphere. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee..."
] |
>
So this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere."
] |
>
I could I kind of see that happening.
China: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.
US: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon."
] |
>
Ah the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned."
] |
>
I'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane."
] |
>
I wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.
Granted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too."
] |
>
This is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays."
] |
>
Believe it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights."
] |
>
Yes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years."
] |
>
China is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that"
] |
>
I believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks"
] |
>
It’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation."
] |
>
It's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris.
Also, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think."
] |
>
Yeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military."
] |
>
Im sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol"
] |
>
Eh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit."
] |
>
Weird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time? | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly."
] |
>
Pretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. "Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...". "Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.
Edit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?"
] |
>
LMAO what audience is this statement intended for? | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media."
] |
>
Weather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.
But, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you! | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?"
] |
>
Where are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!"
] |
>
Nothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.
I hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them"
] |
>
It won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.) | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy."
] |
>
In WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got.
One killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.
Japanese balloon bombs | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)"
] |
>
We also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs"
] |
>
Sure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used."
] |
>
Here's a good analysis of this non-story. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China"
] |
>
Good analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster? | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story."
] |
>
It's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather.
It's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?"
] |
>
Montana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana."
] |
>
And haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated.... | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi."
] |
>
Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....
Outdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. "Weather balloons" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated...."
] |
>
Spy balloon purpose by county
China: weather
USA: Swamp gas | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well."
] |
>
I wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas"
] |
>
They learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world? | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face."
] |
>
It’s looking for lost classified documents. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?"
] |
>
When China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing? | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents."
] |
>
It’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet? | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?"
] |
>
Oh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?"
] |
>
A latex-mas present, if you will | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present"
] |
>
Probably spreading fungal spores. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will"
] |
>
We need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there! | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores."
] |
>
I see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!"
] |
>
The Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.
Is this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way? | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage."
] |
>
Never ever trust the Chinese government.
Mark my words. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?"
] |
>
Weather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device) | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words."
] |
>
Sure it is, China. Sure it is. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)"
] |
>
I just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.
Think about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is."
] |
>
I used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US."
] |
>
There is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time."
] |
>
The forecast calls for lead. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more."
] |
>
China.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead."
] |
>
The spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.
Never trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far."
] |
>
What if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.
I'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps."
] |
>
why do you need to know the weather in montana | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one."
] |
>
China violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives? | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana"
] |
>
Like you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol! | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?"
] |
>
Nothing I said was untrue, was it? | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!"
] |
>
Yes. It was untrue. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?"
] |
>
Given how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the "aggressive rhetoric" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue."
] |
>
I welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down"
] |
>
You watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha"
] |
>
What if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?
3 buses is pretty large... | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon."
] |
>
Why not shoot it down and actually see what it is?
US being extra cautious or hiding something themselves? | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large..."
] |
>
"Weather CONTROL device!" -Red/Tinfoil hats | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large...",
">\n\nWhy not shoot it down and actually see what it is?\nUS being extra cautious or hiding something themselves?"
] |
>
U2 is also capable of collecting weather data. Among other things. Just saying. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large...",
">\n\nWhy not shoot it down and actually see what it is?\nUS being extra cautious or hiding something themselves?",
">\n\n\"Weather CONTROL device!\" -Red/Tinfoil hats"
] |
>
Didn't we tell the Soviets something similar with a recon instrument back in the day? To Yeltsin? | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large...",
">\n\nWhy not shoot it down and actually see what it is?\nUS being extra cautious or hiding something themselves?",
">\n\n\"Weather CONTROL device!\" -Red/Tinfoil hats",
">\n\nU2 is also capable of collecting weather data. Among other things. Just saying."
] |
>
Is there a site showing its’ current location? | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large...",
">\n\nWhy not shoot it down and actually see what it is?\nUS being extra cautious or hiding something themselves?",
">\n\n\"Weather CONTROL device!\" -Red/Tinfoil hats",
">\n\nU2 is also capable of collecting weather data. Among other things. Just saying.",
">\n\nDidn't we tell the Soviets something similar with a recon instrument back in the day? To Yeltsin?"
] |
>
I swear, bro, it's just swamp gas, you gotta believe me. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large...",
">\n\nWhy not shoot it down and actually see what it is?\nUS being extra cautious or hiding something themselves?",
">\n\n\"Weather CONTROL device!\" -Red/Tinfoil hats",
">\n\nU2 is also capable of collecting weather data. Among other things. Just saying.",
">\n\nDidn't we tell the Soviets something similar with a recon instrument back in the day? To Yeltsin?",
">\n\nIs there a site showing its’ current location?"
] |
>
"we wanna know weather you got any good technology." | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large...",
">\n\nWhy not shoot it down and actually see what it is?\nUS being extra cautious or hiding something themselves?",
">\n\n\"Weather CONTROL device!\" -Red/Tinfoil hats",
">\n\nU2 is also capable of collecting weather data. Among other things. Just saying.",
">\n\nDidn't we tell the Soviets something similar with a recon instrument back in the day? To Yeltsin?",
">\n\nIs there a site showing its’ current location?",
">\n\nI swear, bro, it's just swamp gas, you gotta believe me."
] |
>
Sure it is and they have a Great Wall to sell you! | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large...",
">\n\nWhy not shoot it down and actually see what it is?\nUS being extra cautious or hiding something themselves?",
">\n\n\"Weather CONTROL device!\" -Red/Tinfoil hats",
">\n\nU2 is also capable of collecting weather data. Among other things. Just saying.",
">\n\nDidn't we tell the Soviets something similar with a recon instrument back in the day? To Yeltsin?",
">\n\nIs there a site showing its’ current location?",
">\n\nI swear, bro, it's just swamp gas, you gotta believe me.",
">\n\n\"we wanna know weather you got any good technology.\""
] |
>
The balloon that your girlfriend tells you not to worry about. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large...",
">\n\nWhy not shoot it down and actually see what it is?\nUS being extra cautious or hiding something themselves?",
">\n\n\"Weather CONTROL device!\" -Red/Tinfoil hats",
">\n\nU2 is also capable of collecting weather data. Among other things. Just saying.",
">\n\nDidn't we tell the Soviets something similar with a recon instrument back in the day? To Yeltsin?",
">\n\nIs there a site showing its’ current location?",
">\n\nI swear, bro, it's just swamp gas, you gotta believe me.",
">\n\n\"we wanna know weather you got any good technology.\"",
">\n\nSure it is and they have a Great Wall to sell you!"
] |
>
What am I missing? If this was 1945, it would make sense.
In 2023, one of the most powerful countries in the world sends a ‘spy’ balloon the size of a jumbo jet moving 30mph and floating at 60k feet over the US enabling every radar, spy satellite (and any dude with binoculars) to see it and could be shot down with a Red Ryder BB gun? | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large...",
">\n\nWhy not shoot it down and actually see what it is?\nUS being extra cautious or hiding something themselves?",
">\n\n\"Weather CONTROL device!\" -Red/Tinfoil hats",
">\n\nU2 is also capable of collecting weather data. Among other things. Just saying.",
">\n\nDidn't we tell the Soviets something similar with a recon instrument back in the day? To Yeltsin?",
">\n\nIs there a site showing its’ current location?",
">\n\nI swear, bro, it's just swamp gas, you gotta believe me.",
">\n\n\"we wanna know weather you got any good technology.\"",
">\n\nSure it is and they have a Great Wall to sell you!",
">\n\nThe balloon that your girlfriend tells you not to worry about."
] |
>
Thats as close to an apology you will get... | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large...",
">\n\nWhy not shoot it down and actually see what it is?\nUS being extra cautious or hiding something themselves?",
">\n\n\"Weather CONTROL device!\" -Red/Tinfoil hats",
">\n\nU2 is also capable of collecting weather data. Among other things. Just saying.",
">\n\nDidn't we tell the Soviets something similar with a recon instrument back in the day? To Yeltsin?",
">\n\nIs there a site showing its’ current location?",
">\n\nI swear, bro, it's just swamp gas, you gotta believe me.",
">\n\n\"we wanna know weather you got any good technology.\"",
">\n\nSure it is and they have a Great Wall to sell you!",
">\n\nThe balloon that your girlfriend tells you not to worry about.",
">\n\nWhat am I missing? If this was 1945, it would make sense. \nIn 2023, one of the most powerful countries in the world sends a ‘spy’ balloon the size of a jumbo jet moving 30mph and floating at 60k feet over the US enabling every radar, spy satellite (and any dude with binoculars) to see it and could be shot down with a Red Ryder BB gun?"
] |
>
Put Merrick Garland or Jack Smith on the case. That will guarantee nothing will ever happen. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large...",
">\n\nWhy not shoot it down and actually see what it is?\nUS being extra cautious or hiding something themselves?",
">\n\n\"Weather CONTROL device!\" -Red/Tinfoil hats",
">\n\nU2 is also capable of collecting weather data. Among other things. Just saying.",
">\n\nDidn't we tell the Soviets something similar with a recon instrument back in the day? To Yeltsin?",
">\n\nIs there a site showing its’ current location?",
">\n\nI swear, bro, it's just swamp gas, you gotta believe me.",
">\n\n\"we wanna know weather you got any good technology.\"",
">\n\nSure it is and they have a Great Wall to sell you!",
">\n\nThe balloon that your girlfriend tells you not to worry about.",
">\n\nWhat am I missing? If this was 1945, it would make sense. \nIn 2023, one of the most powerful countries in the world sends a ‘spy’ balloon the size of a jumbo jet moving 30mph and floating at 60k feet over the US enabling every radar, spy satellite (and any dude with binoculars) to see it and could be shot down with a Red Ryder BB gun?",
">\n\nThats as close to an apology you will get..."
] |
>
Why can't the US just retrieve the balloon and take a look inside?
I don't get it why nobody say this? | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large...",
">\n\nWhy not shoot it down and actually see what it is?\nUS being extra cautious or hiding something themselves?",
">\n\n\"Weather CONTROL device!\" -Red/Tinfoil hats",
">\n\nU2 is also capable of collecting weather data. Among other things. Just saying.",
">\n\nDidn't we tell the Soviets something similar with a recon instrument back in the day? To Yeltsin?",
">\n\nIs there a site showing its’ current location?",
">\n\nI swear, bro, it's just swamp gas, you gotta believe me.",
">\n\n\"we wanna know weather you got any good technology.\"",
">\n\nSure it is and they have a Great Wall to sell you!",
">\n\nThe balloon that your girlfriend tells you not to worry about.",
">\n\nWhat am I missing? If this was 1945, it would make sense. \nIn 2023, one of the most powerful countries in the world sends a ‘spy’ balloon the size of a jumbo jet moving 30mph and floating at 60k feet over the US enabling every radar, spy satellite (and any dude with binoculars) to see it and could be shot down with a Red Ryder BB gun?",
">\n\nThats as close to an apology you will get...",
">\n\nPut Merrick Garland or Jack Smith on the case. That will guarantee nothing will ever happen."
] |
>
I bet it had some "weather" radar. It checked the barometer for conflict. | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large...",
">\n\nWhy not shoot it down and actually see what it is?\nUS being extra cautious or hiding something themselves?",
">\n\n\"Weather CONTROL device!\" -Red/Tinfoil hats",
">\n\nU2 is also capable of collecting weather data. Among other things. Just saying.",
">\n\nDidn't we tell the Soviets something similar with a recon instrument back in the day? To Yeltsin?",
">\n\nIs there a site showing its’ current location?",
">\n\nI swear, bro, it's just swamp gas, you gotta believe me.",
">\n\n\"we wanna know weather you got any good technology.\"",
">\n\nSure it is and they have a Great Wall to sell you!",
">\n\nThe balloon that your girlfriend tells you not to worry about.",
">\n\nWhat am I missing? If this was 1945, it would make sense. \nIn 2023, one of the most powerful countries in the world sends a ‘spy’ balloon the size of a jumbo jet moving 30mph and floating at 60k feet over the US enabling every radar, spy satellite (and any dude with binoculars) to see it and could be shot down with a Red Ryder BB gun?",
">\n\nThats as close to an apology you will get...",
">\n\nPut Merrick Garland or Jack Smith on the case. That will guarantee nothing will ever happen.",
">\n\nWhy can't the US just retrieve the balloon and take a look inside?\nI don't get it why nobody say this?"
] |
>
So, we're living in bizzaro West Wing script land now? Coastal erosion in the Balkans you say? The Finns know about it? | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large...",
">\n\nWhy not shoot it down and actually see what it is?\nUS being extra cautious or hiding something themselves?",
">\n\n\"Weather CONTROL device!\" -Red/Tinfoil hats",
">\n\nU2 is also capable of collecting weather data. Among other things. Just saying.",
">\n\nDidn't we tell the Soviets something similar with a recon instrument back in the day? To Yeltsin?",
">\n\nIs there a site showing its’ current location?",
">\n\nI swear, bro, it's just swamp gas, you gotta believe me.",
">\n\n\"we wanna know weather you got any good technology.\"",
">\n\nSure it is and they have a Great Wall to sell you!",
">\n\nThe balloon that your girlfriend tells you not to worry about.",
">\n\nWhat am I missing? If this was 1945, it would make sense. \nIn 2023, one of the most powerful countries in the world sends a ‘spy’ balloon the size of a jumbo jet moving 30mph and floating at 60k feet over the US enabling every radar, spy satellite (and any dude with binoculars) to see it and could be shot down with a Red Ryder BB gun?",
">\n\nThats as close to an apology you will get...",
">\n\nPut Merrick Garland or Jack Smith on the case. That will guarantee nothing will ever happen.",
">\n\nWhy can't the US just retrieve the balloon and take a look inside?\nI don't get it why nobody say this?",
">\n\nI bet it had some \"weather\" radar. It checked the barometer for conflict."
] |
>
Can we get Alan Eustace to sky dive onto it and take a selfie? I think most people would tune in to see that… | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large...",
">\n\nWhy not shoot it down and actually see what it is?\nUS being extra cautious or hiding something themselves?",
">\n\n\"Weather CONTROL device!\" -Red/Tinfoil hats",
">\n\nU2 is also capable of collecting weather data. Among other things. Just saying.",
">\n\nDidn't we tell the Soviets something similar with a recon instrument back in the day? To Yeltsin?",
">\n\nIs there a site showing its’ current location?",
">\n\nI swear, bro, it's just swamp gas, you gotta believe me.",
">\n\n\"we wanna know weather you got any good technology.\"",
">\n\nSure it is and they have a Great Wall to sell you!",
">\n\nThe balloon that your girlfriend tells you not to worry about.",
">\n\nWhat am I missing? If this was 1945, it would make sense. \nIn 2023, one of the most powerful countries in the world sends a ‘spy’ balloon the size of a jumbo jet moving 30mph and floating at 60k feet over the US enabling every radar, spy satellite (and any dude with binoculars) to see it and could be shot down with a Red Ryder BB gun?",
">\n\nThats as close to an apology you will get...",
">\n\nPut Merrick Garland or Jack Smith on the case. That will guarantee nothing will ever happen.",
">\n\nWhy can't the US just retrieve the balloon and take a look inside?\nI don't get it why nobody say this?",
">\n\nI bet it had some \"weather\" radar. It checked the barometer for conflict.",
">\n\nSo, we're living in bizzaro West Wing script land now? Coastal erosion in the Balkans you say? The Finns know about it?"
] |
>
Soon there will be a third one… ⚪️⚪️🤣 | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large...",
">\n\nWhy not shoot it down and actually see what it is?\nUS being extra cautious or hiding something themselves?",
">\n\n\"Weather CONTROL device!\" -Red/Tinfoil hats",
">\n\nU2 is also capable of collecting weather data. Among other things. Just saying.",
">\n\nDidn't we tell the Soviets something similar with a recon instrument back in the day? To Yeltsin?",
">\n\nIs there a site showing its’ current location?",
">\n\nI swear, bro, it's just swamp gas, you gotta believe me.",
">\n\n\"we wanna know weather you got any good technology.\"",
">\n\nSure it is and they have a Great Wall to sell you!",
">\n\nThe balloon that your girlfriend tells you not to worry about.",
">\n\nWhat am I missing? If this was 1945, it would make sense. \nIn 2023, one of the most powerful countries in the world sends a ‘spy’ balloon the size of a jumbo jet moving 30mph and floating at 60k feet over the US enabling every radar, spy satellite (and any dude with binoculars) to see it and could be shot down with a Red Ryder BB gun?",
">\n\nThats as close to an apology you will get...",
">\n\nPut Merrick Garland or Jack Smith on the case. That will guarantee nothing will ever happen.",
">\n\nWhy can't the US just retrieve the balloon and take a look inside?\nI don't get it why nobody say this?",
">\n\nI bet it had some \"weather\" radar. It checked the barometer for conflict.",
">\n\nSo, we're living in bizzaro West Wing script land now? Coastal erosion in the Balkans you say? The Finns know about it?",
">\n\nCan we get Alan Eustace to sky dive onto it and take a selfie? I think most people would tune in to see that…"
] |
> | [
"Ryan McBeth did a great YouTube short on this today.\nIf you are worried about \"spy balloons\" but you have TikTok on your phone, you need to give your head a shake.",
">\n\nI really don't think anyone fits that description tbh.\n\nEdit: Oh how wrong I was.",
">\n\nLol my dad legit hates China and has TikTok. Uhhhh",
">\n\nDad doesnt use TikTok but hates china. Why do all our dads hate China? I mean fuck the CCP but it seems our dads were hating china before it was cool",
">\n\nThey were probably around to see stuff like Tiananmen Square being aired live.",
">\n\nShitting on the Chinese Communist Party is not the same as shitting on Chinese people. It's important to not conflate these two things. In fact supporting the CCP is kind of antithetical to supporting Chinese people since there has been no institution in the world responsible for more death and suffering of the Chinese people than the CCP.",
">\n\nFor sure. The US government was better aligned with China's interests than the other powers of UK, Netherlands, and France around the 1900s up through WWII and helping to liberate them from the Japanese. Some of that was driven by white Christian missionaries, but it was positive in China's favor nonetheless. Domestic sentiment was bad and racist, but diplomatically the US wasn't the biggest actor in the century of humiliation. There was also significant blame tossed around between US politicians about who was responsible for China going communist and viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.",
">\n\n\nand viewing it as a massive geopolitical mistake.\n\nwell, they weren't wrong about that",
">\n\nGuess they forgot to tell the US their balloon drifted off course across the Pacific Ocean. Nothing suspicious about that, no sir.",
">\n\nIf it really is a weather balloon, the answer is \"Why bother?\"\nIt's one of those weird things where if it's a spy balloon, of course they wouldn't tell the US, and if it's a weather balloon of course they wouldn't tell the US, and for two completely different reasons.",
">\n\nGiven that weather balloons are still commonly used by basically every country it seems to me that occams razor says its a weather balloon, not a spy balloon.",
">\n\nYeah, but normally weather balloons don't drift across the ocean. They typically live a few hours and stay relatively in the same \\~125 mile circle. This one drifted some 7,000 miles and based on recorded crossings of the ocean in a balloon, might have been in the air for a few days?",
">\n\nAlso I don't think they are usually this large right?",
">\n\nA weather balloon has something about the size of a box of cereal with a few sensors and a transmitter in it. \nThis thing has something the size of a couple of school busses.",
">\n\nMost spy balloons are there to collect weather data...amongst other things",
">\n\nWeather is of great importance for military operations.\nThe Nazis even setup secret weather stations in Greenland, Soviet Russia and Canada in order to collect weather readings. \nAlso, the the National Weather Service just freely hands out weather data. Any country can just pull that from the website. It's public.",
">\n\nThe sun gives away periscopes more than radar.",
">\n\nWhat like it just hands them out for free? Damn.",
">\n\nWell, yeah, Radar has to fill out requisitions in accordance with Army regulations.",
">\n\nPlus he has to answer why a MASH unit would need periscopes in the first place.",
">\n\nI'm curious what a balloon can do that a satellite can't, in terms of military information gathering.",
">\n\nLinger over an area for significant periods of time.",
">\n\nsome satellites can stay over the same area as long as they choose... they are called geostationary... they can be maneuvered to park over a chosen target for as short or long a time as their operators want",
">\n\nYes and they very expensive, a balloon less so",
">\n\nyes... but expense is not really the issue at hand is it? the chinese and the russians have had satellites dedicated to spying on every square inch of the continent for decades and not once in my 54 years have i heard anyone call for shooting them down or taking any action at all to \"protect\" the country from them",
">\n\nCCP must not be aware of US citizen's unique distrust of weather balloons.\nMight as well have claimed it's actually a grassy knoll.",
">\n\nThat was my first thought too, as hilarious as it is for them to go with the classic “it’s just a weather balloon” excuse, they have no idea that makes so many more people here believe it’s 10x more likely to be a spy balloon now. Guess they hadn’t gathered that intel yet.",
">\n\nI think my question is did it get to Montana through Canadian airspace or did it take us multiple states to recognize it was there? These things are generally easily detectable so how did it get 3 states in from the Pacific before anyone saw it?",
">\n\nIt flew over the Aleutians, Alaska, then Canada. That area is pretty empty, and it was at a much higher altitude than planes normally fly. It was at about 63000 feet, which is near the service ceiling of an F-22.",
">\n\nService ceiling is such a weird metric because that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate at. Above 50,000ft crew are required to wear pressure suits. I’m unsure the F-22 has such pressure suits, though I could be wrong.\nDownvotes: Give me proof that F-22s fly at 60,000ft on a regular basis and I'll eat a sock. Ya'll dumbasses can't fucking read.",
">\n\nService ceiling is the highest altitude that a plane can operate. Not all planes. But that plane. Different planes have different ceilings. You can’t say “that’s not the highest altitude aircraft actually operate” as that’s an irrelevant statement because that’s not what a service ceiling is. \nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.",
">\n\nI never said it can’t operate at the service ceiling, I said it doesn’t actually fly at the service ceiling, as in usual, everyday flight. I thought that was clear from my wording but somehow people are straw-manning that I claimed it can’t go that high. The FA-18 and F-16 have a service ceiling in the 50s, F-15 in the 60s as well, but they typically operate in the 20s-30s, sometimes cruising in the 40s. This information is first-hand from pilots of those aircraft.\n\nFor example a cessna 172 has a ceiling around 14,000. You aren’t getting it to 50,000.\n\nAnother straw man. I never said the plane could go higher than its service ceiling. The 172 has a ceiling of 14,000ft. How often do you see them flying around at 14,000ft? Practically never. Hell, the engine would struggle to get air that high without a supercharger. 172s are usually hanging out below 5,000, occasionally cruising over 5,000 but rarely above 7,000\\~8,000.\nMy point, since no one has any reading comprehension here: \"service ceiling\" != average, daily operating altitude. Real life isn't a min-max video game where you push a plane to whatever maximum metric is listed in Wikipedia. Real life has much more context that you mouthbreathers can't wrap your smooth brains around.",
">\n\nCouple of things. Lots of people are saying it's a spy balloon because we use satellites for weather now. \nActually, there are 900 weather balloons that get sent up each day to collect data and build models. 92 of these are launched by the U.S. This daily occurrence is very coordinated for the most part. \nSo while it's a plausible excuse from China, the fact that they didn't happen to mention it sooner, seems like a pretty big red flag to me.\nIt's probably a spy thing.",
">\n\nIsn’t China claiming it was a private company that released it? If that were the case, would the Chinese government even know it was off course?",
">\n\nA 100% private company in China?",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what I would say if I had a spy balloon.",
">\n\nMy question is, how did US know it’s from China? They didn’t bring it down. It also doesn’t have any Chinese character on it.",
">\n\nIt says “Made in China” at the bottom lol",
">\n\nyeah, but our balloons say \"made in china\" on them too, right?",
">\n\nIf it's a civilian balloon yeah.",
">\n\nSo nice of China to be concerned about our weather.",
">\n\nI’d think this explanation would be more plausible if they warned us in advance that it drifted off course.",
">\n\nProbably never expected it to travel over the mainland USA, and with tensions as they are now they most likely didn’t want to lose face. Like we have no idea if it is even powered right now, it could literally be nonfunctional and just floating by itself leaving the Chinese with no way to track it themselves. I just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily, and there’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t (it’s not even fast so you can’t even collect intel quickly, and whoever it is spying on will be forewarned about it). Not to mention how provocative sending a balloon directly into US airspace would be.\nEdit: Real glad people just downvote instead of actually responding with an argument",
">\n\n\nI just doubt that it’s an spy balloon at all simply because you can’t control where a balloon goes easily,\n\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\n\nIf it's high enough it doesn't need ot be anywhere near as precise, steering wise, to get what it's looking for.\n\n\n\nthere’s not much a balloon can do that a satellite can’t\n\nIt can provide persistent coverage over a location. The reason why the US has routine P-8 and U-2 flights off the coast of China is to provide persistent coverage satellites cannot.",
">\n\n\nSteering control can be done by change altitude\n\nInteresting - how does one go about planning such a trip?",
">\n\nI mean, you can use other balloons who may be transmitting data, expected patterns, or even other public weather information.\nRemember they aren't looking to land these things in airstrips, the higher you are the greater field of view and some of these are higher than U-2s.",
">\n\nWell now we know they aren't trying to learn anything.",
">\n\nFor anyone who is interested, China's government has a long military/civilian fusion program where everything in the civilian sphere is to be modify for military use.",
">\n\nLooks like they just shot one down over Montana.",
">\n\n@realnewsnobullshit on Instagram about 10 minutes ago. Nothing yet confirmed",
">\n\nMy attitude towards this statement is the same as what I feel when I hear about random Americans arrested while \"vacationing\" in North Korea. Oh sure, you don't work for the CIA...you just happen to vacationing in North Korea! In the winter!!!\nIn any case, both sides know what's what. No need to start a war over this.",
">\n\n\nNo need to start a war over this.\n\nSaid no warpig ever.",
">\n\nEven they don't want direct war between nuclear powers. Kind of hard to make money when everyone's dead.",
">\n\nJust like when Russia building their troops along Ukraine border and claimed it was for military exercises.",
">\n\n\"Weather Device\" air quotes Dr. Evil.",
">\n\nGreat, now China knows I still haven't scooped the dog poop in the back yard.",
">\n\nIt’s okay, none of my neighbors pick up their dogs shit either",
">\n\nIf this really was a spy device then we can stop worrying about China as peer adversary.",
">\n\nDon't be so quick to dismiss low-tech solutions. Sometimes they're the right call.",
">\n\nHi! I’m Big Butt Skinner!",
">\n\nSo we know its not a weather device.",
">\n\nIf it was a weather device can't they just land it and ask for it back. 🤥",
">\n\nHonestly I think it would be more believable if they just said it was an attempt to reach us about our car's extended warranty.",
">\n\n“Bogey’s airspeed not sufficient for intercept, suggest we get out and walk”",
">\n\nThat was a really interesting read. Thanks!",
">\n\nThats why stratotankers did some circles near the Montana/Dakota border. Transponders are going on and off.",
">\n\nIf it weren't for the fact that China has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities or how we find Chinese police stations with the sole purpose of monitoring their citizens abroad; we might buy it. But no, this is yet another mass surveillance device. Question remains on who? They really can't stand their people closing outside their country and talking shit about them.",
">\n\n\nChina has been busted numerous times for random \"citizens\" on tours taking pictures of government facilities\n\nEvery world power does this.",
">\n\nNYPD also has international offices and it's really as ridiculous as that sounds.",
">\n\nThe NYPD doesnt fuck around. If a rat shits in a corner, they know about it.",
">\n\nMy guess is that the U.S. knew about this a week ago, when it was well outside our airspace, and decided there was some benefit in watching it rather than knocking it down.\nThe fact that we are so confident that it's Chinese—so confident that the Chinese haven't even denied that—suggests there have been no surprises with respect to its arrival.\nFor all we know, U.S. operatives pretending to be tech vendors supplied parts of the system to China.",
">\n\nLol.\nThis thing needs to be collected and analysed. They could be looking underground at the missile silos. \nI'm honestly shocked at how calmy this is being handled... Which is a good thing the way that the world is right now.",
">\n\nI think everyone is just surprised it’s a balloon… with satellite technology it just seems antiquated. Someone just blow a dart at it and let’s carry on :).",
">\n\nSats are the main way of gathering intel nowadays, but balloons can certainly have a place for getting better resolution as well as testing how long it takes for us to detect the dang thing.",
">\n\nDamn, I guess they can't just google the weather in China but this seems like a lot of extra steps.",
">\n\nIntel received from [email protected]",
">\n\nIt’s just TikTok’s new mobile router",
">\n\nTime for a balloon party over China! Oopsie, it was a \"gender reveal\" gone wrong tee hee...",
">\n\nNow there's a second one in our hemisphere.",
">\n\nSo this tells us that it is definitely NOT a weather device. I would've felt better if they said it was a spy balloon.",
">\n\nI could I kind of see that happening.\nChina: *proudly* That's our advanced hyper economical aero spy craft with mass production capability.\nUS: It's just a ballon and best it can do is gather weather data. No need to be concerned.",
">\n\nAh the good ole weather excuse. When a US U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union, they also tried to claim it was a civilian weather plane.",
">\n\nI'm willing to bet that both sides knew about the situation long before it hit social media and there was likely communication between multiple parties. Once it did hit social media when people got concerned, a certain breed of politics didn't wait around to use it as propaganda for gains in electoral favor and to smear the current administration. It would probably be worth noting that it followed the direction of the jet stream to some extent too.",
">\n\nI wouldn't be surprised. We have satellites and such, so I don't see how a slow moving balloon is going to help much with anything.\nGranted we should take it down and take a look to be sure. You never know nowadays.",
">\n\nThis is literally the same excuse the United States used when they used the U2 for overflights.",
">\n\nBelieve it or not, satellite tech has advanced quite a bit over the last 60 years.",
">\n\nYes it has. The x-37 is a great example of that",
">\n\nChina is up to some shady shit; don’t take their word for it, folks",
">\n\nI believe that this balloon should be 'shot down' or whatever is done to collect a balloon. It has violated our airspace, is unable to be recalled and certainly poses a threat to our nation.",
">\n\nIt’s not a threat until you shoot it down. There’s a reason why we haven’t done anything about it yet and it’s probably more complicated than most think.",
">\n\nIt's over Montana. You don't have to worry about debris. \nAlso, shooting this down would be laughably easy for our military.",
">\n\nYeah, I'm sure you know more about the risk of shooting it down than the Pentagon lol",
">\n\nIm sure there is a risk here that is not being said, maybe just to avoid further escalation but the reason they're giving of the debris field landing over populated areas sure seems like bullshit.",
">\n\nEh, this is a nothing burger. Spy satellites and spy planes fly over the US regularly.",
">\n\nWeird. Why do you think they don't get front page news except for this one time?",
">\n\nPretty simple. China and the US have entered into a near peer contest akin to the Cold War. The information is meant to essentially mess with China. \"Eh, your spy balloon is super cool and all... No no, we don't care. We're not even going to bother shooting it down and studying it...\". \"Wait, why don't they want to study it? Do they already know what it contains? Is there a leak? Better find the leak!\" Proceeds to dig for a leak that probably doesn't exist.\nEdit: For context, China launched three spy satellites in January and it was barely mentioned in mainstream media.",
">\n\nLMAO what audience is this statement intended for?",
">\n\nWeather balloon huh? Trusting China over anything they say is like trusting a serial killer to not stab you in the back.\nBut, hey with Tik Tok they already have the perfect surveillance of the masses for many of its rival nations. It has access to far more information than people think and China can access it whenever they want. Because if the company that owns it doesn’t allow them too….off to prison with you!",
">\n\nWhere are all these morons shooting up 5g towers when you need them",
">\n\nNothing from the CCP should be taken at face value, literally ever.\nI hope the CHIPS act is just the start of crippling their economy.",
">\n\nIt won't, US corporations would lobby to have exceptions so they can get their cheap trinkets to sell. China is also known for using our own legal system against us. (They sue us from inside the country to prevent banning or sanctioning them.)",
">\n\nIn WWII, Japan used balloon bombs. Several made it deep into the US, with Michigan and Kansas being the furthest east that they got. \nOne killed 6 people in Oregon in 1945. These would be the only civilian casualties due to enemy action in the continental US during WWII.\nJapanese balloon bombs",
">\n\nWe also were planning on bat bombs with a bunch of bats strapped with incendiary bombs we burned down a base during the demonstration. It was quite effective but ultimately not used.",
">\n\nSure, a weather satelite, whatever you say China",
">\n\nHere's a good analysis of this non-story.",
">\n\nGood analysis... Hmm, the article says 'which probably weighs less than the average toaster'. a 3 school bus sized balloon with some conglomeration of devices that weighs less than a toaster?",
">\n\nIt's hard to believe it's a weather device, given all of the satellites we have just for weather. \nIt's hard to believe it's a spying device because this is the 21st century, military superpower China, and that it was over Mon-fucking-tana.",
">\n\nMontana has several Minuteman ICBM silos scattered around, fyi.",
">\n\nAnd haven't those been there some 60-odd years? Surely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....",
">\n\n\nSurely, flying a balloon over them to get photos now is a bit outdated....\n\nOutdated, unless you're gathering more than photos. Electronic signals require you to be a bit closer to earth usually than a satellite. Not to mention, you can probably deploy 10 balloons in the same time/cost it'd take to deploy half a satellite. \"Weather balloons\" are also a bit less conspicuous than a full blown satellite as well.",
">\n\nSpy balloon purpose by county\n\n\nChina: weather\n\n\nUSA: Swamp gas",
">\n\nI wonder how many countries make this argument with a straight face.",
">\n\nThey learn it from us. Have you noticed that inevitably all the things we say and do trickle down to even 3rd world?",
">\n\nIt’s looking for lost classified documents.",
">\n\nWhen China says it's a weather balloon, are they crossing their fingers? Or is it a George Santos alternative truth thing?",
">\n\nIt’s over Montana and some redneck hasn’t shot it down yet?",
">\n\nOh!!!!!! I thought it was a late x-mas present",
">\n\nA latex-mas present, if you will",
">\n\nProbably spreading fungal spores.",
">\n\nWe need to get weather data for Taiwan. Maybe we should launch maybe, 12,478 of them there!",
">\n\nI see guys sending up balloons up to the near edge of space all the time on YT. Apparently, all you need is some helium and a gopro strapped to it to get some footage.",
">\n\nThe Pentagon is saying destroying it poses a significant risk of debris that could injure/kill people on the ground. I don't understand this position, it traveled through Alaska, Canada, and hovering over Montana, ground damage seems extremely extremely unlikely.\nIs this more about politics? Or still evaluating options? Or they're studying/intercepting data another way?",
">\n\nNever ever trust the Chinese government. \nMark my words.",
">\n\nWeather device! Young people may not get the joke. (The US used to claim their spy satellites to be weather device)",
">\n\nSure it is, China. Sure it is.",
">\n\nI just realized that's actually a plausible explanation.\nThink about it: to get to the US intentionally, the balloon would have to be mechanically guided. That or China would have to count on the winds taking the balloon across the ocean to the US.",
">\n\nI used to launch weather balloons for the US Navy. That's a spy balloon to test reaction time.",
">\n\nThere is no such thing as a civilian entity free of Chinese Government influence. The lie is obvious there. The Pentagon has much more expertise than GQP traitors and their followers. I trust them much more.",
">\n\nThe forecast calls for lead.",
">\n\nChina.is a pos. Autocratic cowards that bully their citizens and try to bully other countries. Fuck off China and don’t push us too far.",
">\n\nThe spy balloon must be shot down. It is clear violation of our sovereignty.\nNever trust the Chinese government. America must consider banning Tiktok and all Chinese spy apps.",
">\n\nWhat if we are monitoring it to learn something? Or if we already fried it with microwaves.\nI'm gonna trust the Air Force on this one.",
">\n\nwhy do you need to know the weather in montana",
">\n\nChina violated our airspace. We slap sanctions on countries for less than this. What gives?",
">\n\nLike you know what the fuck you’re talking about. lol!",
">\n\nNothing I said was untrue, was it?",
">\n\nYes. It was untrue.",
">\n\nGiven how aggressive they were yesterday decrying the \"aggressive rhetoric\" of the US saying one of their balloons was in US territory, I'm gonna say this is some serious bullshit. The US of course will publicly allow China to save face with this excuse but internally both sides not China got caught with their pants down",
">\n\nI welcome the CCP to spy on my phone. I watch stupid videos of people's dogs posted to TikTok. I'm certainly not important enough for any secret information haha",
">\n\nYou watching TikTok is probably more dangerous than this balloon.",
">\n\nWhat if the reason we haven't brought it down or grabbed it is because we have reason to believe Chinese nationals are on board?\n3 buses is pretty large...",
">\n\nWhy not shoot it down and actually see what it is?\nUS being extra cautious or hiding something themselves?",
">\n\n\"Weather CONTROL device!\" -Red/Tinfoil hats",
">\n\nU2 is also capable of collecting weather data. Among other things. Just saying.",
">\n\nDidn't we tell the Soviets something similar with a recon instrument back in the day? To Yeltsin?",
">\n\nIs there a site showing its’ current location?",
">\n\nI swear, bro, it's just swamp gas, you gotta believe me.",
">\n\n\"we wanna know weather you got any good technology.\"",
">\n\nSure it is and they have a Great Wall to sell you!",
">\n\nThe balloon that your girlfriend tells you not to worry about.",
">\n\nWhat am I missing? If this was 1945, it would make sense. \nIn 2023, one of the most powerful countries in the world sends a ‘spy’ balloon the size of a jumbo jet moving 30mph and floating at 60k feet over the US enabling every radar, spy satellite (and any dude with binoculars) to see it and could be shot down with a Red Ryder BB gun?",
">\n\nThats as close to an apology you will get...",
">\n\nPut Merrick Garland or Jack Smith on the case. That will guarantee nothing will ever happen.",
">\n\nWhy can't the US just retrieve the balloon and take a look inside?\nI don't get it why nobody say this?",
">\n\nI bet it had some \"weather\" radar. It checked the barometer for conflict.",
">\n\nSo, we're living in bizzaro West Wing script land now? Coastal erosion in the Balkans you say? The Finns know about it?",
">\n\nCan we get Alan Eustace to sky dive onto it and take a selfie? I think most people would tune in to see that…",
">\n\nSoon there will be a third one… ⚪️⚪️🤣"
] |
No shit | [] |
>
No shit | [
"No shit"
] |
> | [
"No shit",
">\n\nNo shit"
] |
Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD | [] |
>
What are you saying exactly? | [
"Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD"
] |
>
It’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand | [
"Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD",
">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?"
] |
>
Source on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case. | [
"Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD",
">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?",
">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand"
] |
>
So I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨 | [
"Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD",
">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?",
">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand",
">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case."
] |
>
Drop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions. | [
"Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD",
">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?",
">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand",
">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.",
">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨"
] |
>
The balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around. | [
"Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD",
">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?",
">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand",
">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.",
">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨",
">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions."
] |
>
It’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡 | [
"Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD",
">\n\nWhat are you saying exactly?",
">\n\nIt’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand",
">\n\nSource on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case.",
">\n\nSo I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨",
">\n\nDrop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions.",
">\n\nThe balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around."
] |
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